What if the most controlling relationship you've ever heard of isn't happening in a compound somewhere, but behind closed doors in an ordinary home?

In this episode, Renee sits down with Rachel Bernstein, one of the country's leading cult interventionists and a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist with over 30 years of experience. Together they unpack one of the most eye-opening parallels in psychology: the stunning overlap between cult tactics and covert narcissistic relationships.

If you've ever felt like you needed permission to exist in your own relationship — this episode will explain why.

In this conversation, you'll discover:

- Why a marriage or partnership can function as a "cult of two"

- How covert narcissists use the same mind control techniques as cult leaders

- Why intermittent gratification is just as addictive as gambling — and keeps you trapped

- Why leaving feels like abandonment — and why that feeling is by design

- How to start trusting your own inner voice again after years of gaslighting

Rachel has worked with the Department of Justice, appeared in the Starz documentary Seduced: Inside the NXIVM Cult and Netflix series Unwell and How to Become a Cult Leader, and has likely spoken with more cult survivors than anyone in the history of her field.

This is one of those conversations that makes everything suddenly make sense.

Find Rachel at RachelBernsteinTherapy.com and on her podcast, IndoctriNation.

Ready to take the next step in your healing? Visit www.covertnarcissism.com

THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING, AS WELL AS ANY GUEST CONTRIBUTORS INCLUDING RACHEL BERNSTEIN LMFT, IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE.

THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM AND CULTIC CONTROL IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED.

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